Monthly Archives: Jan 2023

The Penrhyn Quarry Railway – Part 2

This is the second article about the tramroad and railways which served Penrhyn Quarries. The first provided a short history of the line and then followed the tramroad which was first used to replaced pack horses carrying slate and other goods between the quarries and Porth Penrhyn. That article can be found at:

The featured image at the top of this second article about the Penrhyn Quarry railways comes from the camera of K.H. Cribb and is included here with the kind permission of his son Russ Cribb.

The first picture is an embedded link to a photograph on Ernie’s Railway Archive on Flickr and is general view of Porth Penrhyn looking South towards the port headquarters.

Ind 1955-CA Port Penrhyn, Bangor, Penrhyn railway.
Porth Penrhyn in 1955, showing both loaded and unloaded slate wagons, and at least one workmen’s coach, © Copyright Ernie’s Railway Archive and embedded here with their kind permission. [43]

The second image shows the port headquarters in 1961, a few years before final closure of the line. The photograph appears to have been taken from the bridge over the line and looks North into the port area.

The headquarters building at Port Penrhyn, Bangor, and part of the quay photographed in August 1961. The last narrow gauge train to carry slates ran on 28th June 1964. The Penrhyn quarry route is now a public path. [41]
R0708  BLANCHE Port Penrhyn Aug1961
Hunslet 0-4-0ST ‘Blanche’ at Porth Penrhyn preparing to depart South to the Quarry in August 1961, © Copyright Ron Fisher and used by kind permission of the photographer. [44]

The Penrhyn Quarry Railway (PQR) left Porth Penrhyn running alongside a standard-gauge LNWR branch which also served the port and linked it with the national rail network.

In this picture ‘Linda’ one of the PQR steam locomotives passes under the estate road bridge at South side of the port facilities. The standard-gauge line is visible alongside the narrow-gauge lines. The PQR had parallel tracks here which required a wider arch. The arch seems to match the standard-gauge one for size. The port gates are closed on the standard-gauge line. [1]
‘Blanche’ running light engine just outside Porth Penrhyn. The bridge in the background is the same as that in the picture above, © James King and used by kind permission of the photographer. The image was shared on the Narrow Gauge Enthusiasts Facebook Group by James King in a comment made about a post by Mark Temple on 22nd July 2018. [32]

The older tramroad occupied the same formation area as the two later lines of the PQR. The standard-gauge line was built while the horse-drawn tramroad was operating.

The PQR and the standard-gauge line ran in close proximity for some distance after leaving the port. Both used the same bridges over the Afon Cegin.

Loaded slate wagons being hauled by ‘Blanche’ between Penrhyn Quarries and Porth Penrhyn in the 1920s. The train is close to the bridge at the entrance to the port. This image was shared on the History of Bangor Facebook Group by Margaret Lewis on 17th February 2018. [31]
Blanche leaves Port Penrhyn in August 1953, and will soon pass under the A5. The rail tracks were bought by Festiniog Railway in 1965, and relaid, mostly above Tan-y-Bwlch, © Copyright North Wales Live. [41]
Looking back towards Porth Penrhyn along the old tramroad viaduct with the more modern bridge to the East of it, © Daniel Richard Goodman, 2015. [2] The bridge carrying the PQR and the standard-gauge is a critical part of the Lon Las Ogwen cycle-route. It is of steel spans of 46ft 6in, 53ft and 43ft. The girders are 4ft 2in deep and they are carried on 5ft stone piers giving an average clearance above the river of 10ft. The width is 24ft 6in and the track over the bridge is essentially level. The gradient being only 1 in 580. [29: p61]
The girder bridge when in use as a railway bridge, also taken looking towards Porth Penrhyn, © Eric Foulkes. [3]

The two railways ran on different gradients after a second crossing of the Cegin. The next photograph shows the two lines passing under the old A5. As illustrated, the Shrewsbury to Holyhead road (A5) crossed the PQR and the standard-gauge line. Each line had its own bore in a tall stone embankment. “The Penrhyn bore being 36ft long and of its basic loading gauge Viz. 15ft wide and 11ft 10in. height from rail to top of arch with 7ft horizontal clearance at the foot of the walls.” [29: p60]

The A5 road passed over the top of the two lines. The level difference between the two lines is now obvious. This image was included in the Railway Magazine of October 1961, © J.M. Dunn.

The old structure shown above was later replaced by a more modern structure spanning only the PQR, as shown below. The structure now carries the A5 over the Lon Las Ogwen cycle-route.

Looking Southwest towards the modern Llandudno Road (A5) bridge spanning the cycleway which follows the route of the old Railway. At this point the old Railway alignment is also part of the Coastal Path, © Copyright Ian S and licenced for reuse under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 Generic Licence (CC BY-SA 2.0) [39]

After passing under the A5, the LNWR line rose to join the main Chester to Holyhead line west of Llandygai tunnel. The PQR ran on its own course as it travelled on from the A5 at Maesgierchen.

The Penrhyn Quarry Railway opened in 1879. Its route is shown as a red line, this map is rendered with Maperitive, text and integration: Pechristener Wales in United Kingdom.svg: TUBS United Kingdom location map.svg: NordNordWest • CC BY 3.0. [4]
The routes of three railways can be seen on this extract from the 6″ OS Maps from around the turn of the 20th century. It shows the area South of the A5 road bridge referred to above. On the right of the image, running South from the Incline Cottage at the top of the extract, field boundaries define the alignment of the old Tramroad. To the West of the A5, which runs down the centre of the extract, are two lines which were in use when the survey was undertaken. Running closest to the A5 is the be LNWR standard-gauge branch. The narrow-gauge Penrhyn Quarry Railway is to the West of the standard-gauge line and follows the East bank of the Afon Cegin. [5]
The same area as shown on the OS 6″ Map above. The alignment of the old tramroad is illustrated by the red line. The newer narrow-gauge railway is shown light-blue. Parallel and immediately adjacent to the East of the Penrhyn Quarry Railway was the standard-gauge LNWR line. The two lines began to separate to the Southwest of the A5 road. The approximate alignment of the standard-gauge line is shown in purple. The A5 runs down the centre of the image. [5]

The old tramroad is covered in the first article in this short series:

The Penrhyn Quarry Railway – Part 1

This article follows the Penrhyn Quarry Railway which was operational from the 1870s. Motive power was given some consideration in the earlier article.

In this extract from the 6″ Ordnance Survey from the turn of the 20th century we see the two routes diverging on their way South. [6]
Approximately the same area as appears in the 6″ Ordnance Survey above but focussing on the PQR. Shown, this time, on the RailMapOnline satellite imagery. The route of the Penrhyn Quarry Railway is shown in pink. [7]

At a gradient of 1 in 209 the PQR left the Nant Maes-y-Geirchen gorge crossed the occupation crossing to Felin-Esgob and approached the fine spectacle of the Chester & Holyhead Railway’s Cegin Viaduct.

The PQR runs roughly North to South across this extract on the East bank of the Afon Cegin. The mainline along the North coast of Wales crosses the map from West to East at high level, crossing the Afon Cegin on a viaduct. at Bethesda Junction a LNWR branch-line curved away to the South. Initially the PQR and the Bethesda Branch ran in parallel up the valley of the Cegin. [8]
This is the same area as on the 6″ Ordnance Survey above. The PQR is shown in pink and the LNWR branch and mainline are shown in purple. The Cegin Viaduct appears in the picture below. [7]
The Cegin Viaduct which carries the mainline over the Afon Cegin. The PQR formation was used for the footpath/cycle-track visible on the valley floor, © Copyright Meirion and licensed for reuse under a Creative Commons Licence – Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 Generic (CC BY-SA 2.0). [18]

The Cegin Viaducthas seven semi-circular arches each of 35ft span – it has masonry piers but the stone arches are faced in brick (Ref: Public Record Office, M.T. 27/49.).” [29: p60]

As an aside, The Bethesda Branch which runs along a similar route to the PQR was a 4.25mile (6.8 km) line between Bangor and Bethesda in Gwynedd, North Wales. Its primary purpose was to bring quarried slate down to the main line for onward transport. It existed in competition with the private PQR. It opened in July 1884, and a local passenger service was run as well as trains for the mineral traffic.

Competition with the PQR was healthy and the two lines managed to co-exist until increasing road competition led to the cessation of ordinary passenger services on the branch in 1951; goods traffic and occasional passenger excursion journeys kept the line going until its complete closure in October 1963. [19]

Wikipedia tells us that the line climbed all the way from the main line, rising for much of the way at 1 in 40. Major features on the branch included the Ogwen Viaduct and the Tregarth Tunnel which was 279yards (255metres) long. Apart from the terminus at Bethesda, there were two intermediate stations on the route – at Felin Hen and at Tregarth. [19]

The Bethesda Branch formation now provides a cycle and walking route to Bethesda from Porth Penrhyn – known as the Ogwen Trail, part of the Sustrans 82 cycle-route.

Continuing to look at the Penrhyn Quarry Railway …. we head South from the Cegin Viaduct.

Looking South along the route of the PQR, through one of the arches of the Cegin Viaduct, © Copyright Toxteth O’Grady. [Google Streetview, 2022]
A short distance further down the PQR, © Copyright Nigel Williams and licensed for reuse under aCreative Commons Licence (CC BY-SA 2.0). [20]
A little further along the line of the PQR, © Copyright Eric Jones and licensed for reuse under a Creative Commons Licence. (CC BY-SA 2.0). [21]

At about 70ft above sea-level, there was a halt for the Workmen’s Train adjacent to Lon Cefn Ty. The bridge here (once just a footbridge) carried the road over the PQR. To the West of the bridge, the Lon Cefn Ty crossed the Afon Cegin by means of a ford (with a footbridge for pedestrians) and then passed under the Bethesda Branch which was on a steep falling grade from its junction with the mainline just to the East of Bangor Tunnel.

The PQR and the Bethesda Branch of the LNWR continue South down the Cegin valley in these two successive extracts from the 6″ Ordnance Survey. [9 & 10]
The same area as covered by the two extracts from the 6″ Ordnance Survey above. [7]
The view South along the line of the PQR as it approaches Lon Cefn Ty. The PQR passed under the road, as does the modern cycle-route. The road is shown at the top of the satellite image above. Interestingly, to the West of this location the road crosses the Afon Cegin by means of a ford and then under a girder bridge which used to carry the Bethesda branch, © Copyright Toxteth O’Grady. [Google Streetview, 2022]
Looking back North along the PQR at the arch bridge under Lon Cefn Ty. [23]
South of Lon Cefn Ty on the line of the PQR, © Copyright Eric Jones and licensed for reuse under a Creative Commons Licence. (CC BY-SA 2.0). [22]
The two lines continue to run parallel to each other passing Coed-Howel Mill. The LNWR branch then crosses the Afon Cegin and the Mill Race on a gently curving viaduct and drifts closer to the PQR. [11]

The PQR left the East side of the Afon Cegin and crossed the Glas-yn-Fryn embankment, passing Coed-Hywel-Uchaf Farm on its left then passed 15ft below the LNWR Bethesda Branch by means of an acutely-skewed bridge. Boyd tells us that the LNWR retrieved this bridge from another site and cut it down “to a 31ft span for re-use here; it formed a ‘tunnel’ almost 43 ft long for the narrow gauge and gave generous vertical clearance of 14 ft and 14 ft horizontal!” [29: p59]

‘Blanche’ leading a train of empty wagons up towards the Quarry on 5th September 1957. The exact location is not known, © Copyright Ken Cribb and used with the kind permission of his son Russ Cribb. [Supplied direct to me by Russ Cribb]
The LNWR branch is running at a higher level than the PQR and has no trouble crossing over it before running immediately alongside it to the East. [12]
Both lines are again highlighted in pink and purple on this matching extract from the satellite imagery on RailMapOnline. North of Glasinfryn, the A55 dual-carriageway disturbs the modern satellite image and cuts the old PQR line meaning that the cycle trail has to turn West and pass under the same bridge as the road South to Glasinfryn. From this point southwards the cycle-track leaves the PQR and follows the Bethesda branch formation. [7]
Looking East along the A55, the parapets of the road viaduct over the Afon Cegin, the cycle-route and an access road can picked out at the near side of each carriageway (to the left and right of the road). [Google Streetview]
The underpass by which the Glasinfryn road passes under the A55, seen from the North. [Google Streetview]
The same underpass seen from the Southwest. [Google Streetview]

As the satellite image above shows, to the South of the A55, the alignments of the PQR and the LNWR Bethesda branch converged and ran parallel to each other at different levels. Immediately South of the A55, the PQR formation ran across what is now an open field. before passing under the Bethesda branch. On the adjacent map extract, to the East of Glasinfryn. The Bethesda Branch is highlighted in purple and the PQR in pink.

If you follow the link below, you will see a superb picture, © R.K. Walton and held by Amgueddfa Cymru – the National Museum Wales. The photographer is sitting on a locaded slate wagon behind one of the PQR’s locomotives, Blanche or Linda, which was taking a loaded train down the PQR towards Porth Penrhyn in 1959, passing under the Bethesda Branch at this location. ….

The Bethesda branch Felin-hen station was Immediately to the South of this point. It appears at the top of the 6″ Ordnance Survey map extract below. The PQR can be seen drifting away to the Southwest alongside the A4244 (Felin Hen Road).

The PQR runs in a large arc round to the East passed a Gravel Pit which had its own connection to the line. [13]
This satellite image covers the same area as the map extract above. [7]

The line curved to the right and then to the left left and crossed the Felin-Hen Road on a 17ft lattice ironwork span and the Felin-Hen stopping point before passing through a heavily wooded area in cutting.

The view along Felin Hen Road from the Northeast. The Bethesda Branch was carried over the Felin Hen Road on a girder bridge. The PQR ran alongside the road in a Southwesterly direction for a short distance before crossing the road at its junction with the B4409. [Google Streetview]
The route of the PQR crosses the Felin Hen Road at its junction with the B4409. [Google Streetview]

Continuing to curve to the left, trains passed a short siding alongside on the left which did not have a permanent connection to the PQR. This siding served “a small gravel pit and connection was made as required – and probably since 1881 – by a set of portable Spoon Points which were lifted off after use. On Mondays a wagon was manhandled down to here from Coed-y-Parc, pushed through the narrow curved cutting into the working and loaded up as required; output was small being only about 150 tons a year, with 1912-14 being the best period. An embarrassing accident occurred to the Up Workmen’s Train here one Monday morning, when, the Spoon Points having been inadvertently left in position, the train engine tried to enter the gravel pit and was derailed. The Engineer’s diary records the date, 3rd February, 1941, that the engine was CEGIN – an unusual choice – and that the train ‘Arrived Mill 10.30 a.m’.” [29: p59]

The PQR then continued to sweep round in a wide arc towards the East, gaining height as it travelled. Completing the curve to the left the PQR was then running West-northwest and to the North of Moel-y-ci Farm which is now, in the 21st century, the site of a Farm Shop (Blas Lon Las). The route of the PQR crosses the access road to the Farm Shop and gradually converges with the line of the Bethesda branch. There was an overbridge carrying the Moel-y-ci Farm lane.

Close to Tyddyn-sarn the two lines run parallel once again The PQR now being at high-level to the South of the cutting which accommodated the Bethesda Branch. [14]
‘Blanche’ with that train of empties on 5th September 1957, again, the location is uncertain, clues might be the slight curvature of the line and the housing in the top-left of the image, © Copyright Ken Cribb and used with the kind permission of his son Russ Cribb. [Supplied direct to me by Russ Cribb]
The same area as it appears on the satellite imagery from RailMapOnline. [7]

James Boyd says that along this section of the PQR there was a long (250 yard) loop together with a long siding on the North side. “trains passed each other on the right. Unusually, iron railings fenced the route here, whereas elsewhere the ubiquitous estate fence made of slabs stuck into the ground on edge and wired together near the top, was (and is) a feature of the district. [42][36: p58]

Clicking here will take you to an image of ‘Linda’ on a PQR main line up train a few years before closure in 1961 which includes the slate slab and wire fencing mentioned by Boyd. [40]

Until the reduction in trade made the running of but one train (from 4th May, 1928) sufficient to move stocks, trains passed here regularly. There was a water tank used by Up trains which stopped if required. … There was no signalling. The loop, Pandy (or sometimes Tyn-y-Lon) was an original stopping point for the Workmen’s Train and boasted one of the four Waiting Huts, but a stone throwing incident during the Great strike so displeased His Lordship that the stop was removed.” [36: p58-59]

The two railways may be running very close together on the map or satellite image but the vertical separation was significant with the LNWR line in deep cutting.

A little further to the East the PQR entered Tregarth alongside Shiloh Chapel. [15]
The same area as in the 6″ Ordnance Survey extract showing the approaches to Tregarth. The PQR (in pink) enters the village to the South of the large Chapel (Shiloh Chapel) and close to Waen-Y-Pandy. [7]
Blanche again, with the train of empties that we have already seen, on 5th September 1957. In February 2023, thanks to Robin Willis, I was able to confirm the location of this photograph in Tregarth, © Copyright Ken Cribb and used with the kind permission of his son Russ Cribb. [Supplied direct to me by Russ Cribb]
These notes and this drawing were sent to me by Robin Willis on 3rd February 2023. … He comments: “The location is difficult to identify as it has changed beyond recognition as much of the foliage has been cleared and the cutting infilled, but a row of cottages to the right of the picture, and out of sight, still exist.   
Fortunately, a friend of mine is an absolute mine of information about the railway and he has identified the location. A marked-up copy of the 1889 25″ OS map is attached. The photographer was standing on the bridge over the PQR in Tregarth where the B4409 road crossed the trackbed. To the extreme left of the photo can be seen a pair of double doors in a shed. These can be seen on Google Maps as the image is from 2009 but were recently demolished to make way for a new house.” [Email on 3rd February 2023]

Boyd comments that the Workmen’s Train Halt in Tregarth was behind Shiloh Chapel, it was “linked with the nearby road by footpath and wicket gate. No trains ever seemed actually to stand there, for it was sufficient for the Workmen’s rake to run slowly past as the men jumped on or off!” [36: p58]

It appears from the annotated map extract sent to me by Robin Willis, that the Workmen’s Halt was on the East side of the main road rather than behind Shiloh Chapel. Nonetheless the quote from Boyd remains apposite.

Looking from the South along the B4409 in Tregarth: the approximate line of the PQR is shown by the pink line. It passed under the road at this point. There is a footpath/cycleway at the right side of this image running away to the East which appears to be on the line of the old PQR. This is the Lon Las Ogwen and is shown on the next Streetview image below.  [Google Streetview]
The Lon Las Ogwen again at the point where the PQR crossed under the main street in Tregarth. At the rear of the gardens of the adjoining properties, the Lon Las Ogwen bears left, heading back to the old Bethesda Branch, while the line of the PQR continues in an East-northeast direction. The land level dropped down to the level of the PQR and then the line was on embankment for a short distance as the map extract below shows. [Google Streetview]
Tregarth Station on the Bethesda Branch of the LNWR is shown on this extract from the 6″Ordnance Survey. The PQR can be seen crossing the map extract to the South of the LNWR line. [16]
The next length of the PQR crosses open ground in a East-northeast direction. the satellite image is once again provided by RailMapOnline. [7]

The PQR passed under the main road in Tregarth through what James Boyd describes as “the ‘standard’ form of road overbridge, stone with brick facings.” [36: p58]

After crossing over the Bethesda Branch the route of the PQR is shown on the 6″ Ordnance Survey looping tightly round following the contours to run due South. It is high enough to cross the metalled lane to the East of Tregarth. The Bethesda line is shown in tunnel on this map extract with the PQR crossing it’s line once again above the southeastern end of the tunnel. [17]
This small extract from satellite imagery shows an area one-third down the left side of the extract above from the 6″ Ordnance Survey. The lane to the East of Tregarth was crossed by the PQR after the PQR ( pink line) crossed the LNWR branch at high-level. [Google Maps]
The bridge that carried the Penrhyn railway track over the standard gauge line on the Bethesda side of the short tunnel
The bridge by which the PQR crossed the Bethesda Branch is still in place in the 21st century. This image is embedded here from Flickr, © Copyright Martin Pritchard [37]
The bridge by which the PQR crossed the Bethesda Branch is still in place in the 21st century, © Copyright Mike Hardisty [37]

The bridge was a skew single arch structure in brick and was funded by the LNWR.. the Bethesda Branch was 31ft below the PQR at this point. [36: p58] Details of the bridge over the lane can be found below. Immediately below are two pictures taken from road level of the 21st century remains of the bridge over the lane.

Facing Southeast along the lane referred to above. The abutments of the girder bridge which used to carry the PQR are clearly visible. [Google Streetview, November 2022]
Facing Northwest along the same lane. [Google Streetview, November 2022]
The satellite imagery provided by RailMapOnline covering the same area as the 6″Ordnance Survey above shows the significant loop in the line of the PQR and its relation to both the older tramroad route (red line) and the LNWR branch (purple line). The Tramroad alignment meets the newer PQR at the top of the Ddinas Incline and then follows the same route South. [7]

After crossing the LNWR, which was in deep cutting, the PQR ran along a very short embankment before bridging the Tal-y-Cae to Hen-Durnpike road which climbed steeply beneath it. The bridge was originally a 25ft timber span (which was replaced in steel) on stone abutments. Just beyond the bridge was the Corrig-Llwydion Workmen’s Train halt, then a shallow cutting followed by an equally shallow causeway. The line was now climbing at 1 in 93 and at approximately 400ft above sea level.

As both the 6″ OS map extract and the satellite image above show, the line turned very sharply to the right round the flanks of Pen-Dinas. Apparently, the tightest radius on the line was at this location (85ft) and the Baldwin locomotives purchased by the PQR were known to derail here on occasions. The line here was supported on low walls. Boyd tells us that the right of way of the PQR widens out at the head of the old Incline. There used to be stabling loops for the Incline at this point. [36: p58]

Between the old tramroad incline and Hen-Durnpike in Bron-Ogwen the newer PQR followed the line of the old Tramroad. Boyd describes this section: “the line was carried on a stone shelf. … Parallel and below, the old road to the Quarry kept company.” [36: p57]

This excellent Google Streetview image, facing South, comes from their survey in January 2022. It shows the Bethesda Branch at low level, visible because it is now a surface cycle-route (Lon Los Ogwen), the highway (Lon Ddinas) at the level of the camera and, on the right, the retaining wall which supported the PQR on a stone shelf above the road. [Google Streetview]
This enlarged extract from the 6″Ordnance Survey from around the turn of the 20th century shows the Bethesda Branch tunnel portal on the East side of Lon Ddinas which runs parallel to but below the PQR. On leaving the tunnel the Bethesda Branch immediately crossed the Afon Ogwen on a viaduct which now carries the Lon Las Ogwen. [24]
A view, looking West from the deck of the viaduct during the work to create the Lon Las Ogwen and showing the tunnel portal and parapet (which ran alongside Lon Ddinas). [25]
A similar view after completion of the work, © Daily Post Wales. [26]
Continuing South the 6″ Ordnance Survey shows the PQR following the line of the older Tramroad. Just off the bottom of this extract, the two routes diverge for a short distance. [27]
A similar area on the modern satellite imagery from RailMapOnline. [7]
The line of the PQR as it crossed what is now the B4409 at Hen Durnpike. [Google Maps]

Boyd describes this road crossing as: “a close-walled road and rail intersection with protective tall semaphore signal (its signal hut perched on the walling, the enceinte of successive Mrs. Parry – gatekeepers) and twin road gates, made all the more risky as several roads met hereabouts. The hut, wooden walled and slate roofed, survived the closure. Here the line was 420 ft above sea level, and there were ‘Whistle’ boards on each side of the gates; this was a most dangerous and narrow place, more especially for the road-user! The position of the approaching train could be determined quite exactly by long forewarning of its steam hooter, each main line engine having an individual tone.” [36: p57]

R0716.  BLANCHE, PQR Level Crossing.  Aug, 1961.
This photograph looks North along what is now the B4409. Blanche is heading down past Hen Durnpike towards Port Penrhyn in August, 1961. © Copyright Ron Fisher. The image is embedded here from Flickr with his kind permission. [38]
The view South along what was the line of the PQR. [Google Streetview]
The route of the PQR to the South of the point it crossed the B4409. [Google Streetview]

Behind the road crossing and running along the backs of the properties in Bron-Ogwen on the B4409, initially on a shallow grade, then climbing at a gradient of 1 in 36 the PQR reached open land. Here, at first, it ran on a causeway spanning a footpath, and then it passed through a series of rock cuttings, one being only 8ft wide at formation level. [36: p57]

As we noted above the route of the PQR and the earlier Tramroad diverge close to the top of this extract from the 6″ Ordnance Survey. The PQR was still in use at the turn of the 20th century and it appears as an active line. The route of the old tramroad passed through the bottom of the garden of the properties to the East of the PQR and then followed the route first delineated by the dotted lines. The route is shown on the following satellite image. [28]
The same area shown on satellite imagery which includes the two routes as plotted on RailMapOnline. [7]

Over open land to the West of the modern B4409 the PQR ran on a high embankment/causeway, 18ft high and 10ft wide. The outer walls of which were formed of stone slabs which were then back filled with earth/arisings from the Quarry.

The two separate routes continue onto this next map extract and cross to the bottom right of the image. The later PQR was carried through this area on a slate-slab embankment crossing the footpath at high level by means of a 5ft span bridge. [36: p56] [29]
The same area as above as it appears on the satellite imagery from RailMapOnline with the two routes plotted. [7]
For a short distance the old tramway route runs to the West of the PQR, as the lines drawn on the satellite image below demonstrate. [30]
This satellite image brings the PQR to the industrial complex at the North end of the Quarry site. [7]
The view West from the B4409 along St. Ann’s Hl. The pink line shows tha approximate alignment of the PQR which crossed St Ann’s Hl on a bridge. The red line marks the route of the old tramway. Both the lines were at high level over the road which was in a deep cutting, as over the years the spoil heaps either side of the road had built gradually built up to levels that required high retaining walls. Once the rails had gone the bridges could be removed and road levels raised on St. Ann’s Hl and the main road. Boyd tell us that the bridge carrying the PQR “was formed in the ‘standard’ method used elsewhere viz. a square-section timber beam supported on slab piers, 4-hole chairs being used thereon to carry each rail. And this was not all, as an adjacent tip line also had its own bridge over the road until the site was full and the tip abandoned. Here too a junction in the tipping system had once thrown off a spur line which passed off the top of the ‘fortress walling’ and crossed the old turnpike road by a wooden span; it led on to further spoil banks on the east side of this road, which at a later date were linked by an incline which dropped a tramway into the Ogwen Tile Works.” [36: p56] On the North and South sides of St. Ann’s Hl the PQR was carried on a slate-slab embankment which held it above the growing spoil heaps. [Google Streetview]
Looking North, back along the line of the old tramroad towards Porth Penrhyn. [Google Streetview]
Looking South along the line of the old tramroad towards Penrhyn Quarry. [Google Streetview]

After crossing St. Ann’s Hl the old Tramroad continued on to the South towards the Felin-Fawr Slate Works and the Quarry. The later PQR route and the Tramroad route meet once again just before a footbridge. Felin-Fawr House was just beyond the footbridge to the left and Mill Cottage was on the right. James Boyd notes that the footbridge was constructed by John Foulkes in 1823 and framed wooden gates to close off access along the line to the Slate Works.[36: p55]

A short distance beyond the footbridge the trains reach the summit of the line. At that point they had climbed 550ft from Porth Penrhyn. [36: p56]

The summit was close to a point where a standpipe was on the retaining wall which ran down the West side of the Slate Works site, to the right of the line. It was along this length of the line that loaded slate trains were prepared for their journey down to the port.

The mainline stayed close to the wall which can still be seen on site in 21st century. The photograph below shows a port-bound slate train being prepared to for the journey North with ‘Linda’ in charge.

Hunslet ‘Linda’ with a train of loaded slate wagons just about to leave Felin Fawr on the Penrhyn main line. Photo taken on 15th April 1952.
Photo (B12) © K H Cribb and included here by kind permission of his son Russ who shared the photograph on the Narrow Gauge Enthusiasts Facebook Group on 9th November 2023. [45]
R0647  Departing Penrhyn June 1961
Linda’s brass dome glints in the afternoon sunlight as she starts the journey down to Port Penrhyn in June 1961. The locos in the scrap line wait patiently for rescue. Notice the footbridge ahead which formed the northern limit of the Felin-Fawr site, © Ron Fisher and included here with his kind permission. [35]
Looking South towards Penrhyn Quarry from within the Felin-Fawr site. A train is being assembled which ‘Blanche’ will take down to Porth Penrhyn. The road bridge ahead was built in 1900 and marks the southern limit of the Felin-Fawr site. Before 1900 the road crossed the PQR lines at level and must have been frequently obstructed by shunting movements © Ron Fisher and included here with his kind permission. [54]

To the East of the mainline there were three sidings between it and the original slate-slab mill. One of these sidings was increasingly used for locomotives which had been taken out of service. The mainline continued South beyond the slab mill and then, once it has been built in 1900, under an overbridge which, like the footbridge’ was gated to control access to the site of the Quarry. Beyond the overbridge were the main sidings where slate wagons were marshalled either for their journey to the coast (if they were full).

We finish this portion of our journey with a look at some of the locomotives which were stored at Felin-Fawr and some of the rolling stock in the immediate area.

Penrhyn Quarry on 2nd August 1955 showing ‘Eigiau’, ‘Stanhope’ and ‘Kathleen’ on the scrap line, © Copyright K H Cribb and used by the kind permission of his son Russ who shared the photo on the Narrow Gauge Enthusiasts Facebook Group on 10th November 2021. [46]
A colour image of the same location taken on 10th June 1962, © Copyright Terry Dorrity and included here with his kind permission. Terry shared this image on the Narrow Gauge Enthusiasts Facebook Group on 1st March 2020. [47]

Terry Dorrity writes of the photograph above: “This was the bitter-sweet sight that met visitors to the Coed y Parc Penrhyn Works at Bethesda in Snowdonia. The sad line of withdrawn locomotives resting and rusting, apparently beyond saving, in a sort of mini Barry scrapyard must have encouraged many a daydream but fortunately every one of them, except SKINNER, has been preserved.” [47]

The Locomotives are: “EIGIAU; STANHOPE; the de Winton, KATHLEEN; JUBILEE 1847; frames wheels and part of the cab of SKINNER; LILLA, and SGT MURPHY await their fate with LILLIAN, which was next in line but out of sight.” [47]

Terry Dorrity continues: “EIGIAU is an Orenstein and Koppel 0-4-0 well tank built in 1912 (works number 5668) which was originally supplied to C L Warren contractors in Cheshire and named SUNLIGHT. In 1916 it was sold to the Aluminium Corporation of Dolgarrog for use in building Cowlyd reservoir and renamed EIGIAU after a lake in Snowdonia. It became a Penrhyn locomotive in 1928. It was taken out of service in 1949 and was bought for preservation by Mr G J Mullis and removed in pieces to Droitwich in January and February 1963 and restored to working order. It ran at Bressingham Gardens for some time but it is now part of the Bredgar and Wormshill Light Railway collection.” [47]

A number of photos taken by Barry Fitzpatrick, Ron Fisher and Ken Cribb, included here follow, all of locos on the line at Felin-Fawr. All pictures used by permission of the photographers or, in Ken’s case, with permission from his son Russ.

‘Eigau’, ‘Stanhope’ and ‘Kathleen’ in 1955,© Copyright Ken Cribb and used with the kind permission of his son Russ Cribb. [Supplied direct to me by Russ Cribb]
‘Lilla’ and other locos stored at Felin-Fawr on 5th September 1957,© Copyright Ken Cribb and used with the kind permission of his son Russ Cribb. [Supplied direct to me by Russ Cribb]
This image and the next three make up a set of four monochrome photographs of locomotives on the “Scrap Line” at the Quarry in 1962, © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [48]
Lilian © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [48]
Lilian © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [48]
Sgt. Murphy © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [48]
Lilian at Felin Fawr in colour in 1961. Built in 1883, Lilian was saved for preservation and is now at the Launceston Steam Railway in Cornwall, © Copyright Ron Fisher and used by kind permission. [49]
Eigiau in 1962 © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [50]
Stanhope in 1962, © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [50]
The ‘de Winton’ vertical boiler locomotive, ‘Kathleen’ in 1962 © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [50]
Jubilee 1847l in 1962 © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [50]
Lilla in 1962 © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [50]
Penrhyn No. 24, a Ruston & Hornsby 4wheel drive Diesel Mechanical locomotive in 1962, in the 21st century, this loco resides at the Great Bush Railway, © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [51][53]

These next two pictures were taken inside the workshops.

Blanche in the workshops in 1962 © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [48]
Ogwen, under repair in 1962 © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [48]

A few further pictures of items of rolling stock at Felin-Fawr. These photographs were taken in 1962, 1963 and 1967.

This photograph shows the brakevan built on the frames of the former Bagnall ‘Sandford’ The small building behind with the blocked up arched entrance was formerly the de Winton shed and the building to the right is the foundry, © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [51]
The same brake van stands adjacent to one of the Felin-Fawr buildings, © Copyright Michael Bishop. Michael Bishop visited Penrhyn Quarry at Bethesda on the 17th of June 1967. By that date the quarry had finished using rail transport and the remaining locomotives and wagons were being scrapped. Tracklifting of the remaining lines was underway. This image is included here by kind permission of the photographer. [52]
In this photograph, the building behind the brakevan was being used as the diesel loco shed with the foundry to the top left, © Copyright Barry Fitzpatrick and used by kind permission. [51]


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Early Tramroads Near Telford – Part 10 – An overview of the East Shropshire Area’s Tramroad Network

I have recently undertaken a detailed review of a book by R.F. Savage and L.D.W. Smith entitled, The Waggon-ways and Plate-ways of East Shropshire. [1] This was a research paper produced in 1965. The original document is held in the Archive Office of the Ironbridge Gorge Museum Trust. It was a timely document. Large parts of the area surveyed by the authors were changed almost beyond recognition as the Development Corporation got to work on creating what became the new town of Telford, where (in 2023) I now live. Their work included a detailed series of drawing produced by hand, tracing as best they could the lines of tramroads from smaller scaled plans onto 6″ to the mile and 1″ to the mile drawings. There are two examples of their 6″ to the mile plans below.

Savage & Smith’s 6″ to the mile plan of the Madeley Wood and Bedlam Furnace Area on the North side of the River Severn Gorge. [1]
Savage & Smith’s 6″ to the mile plan of the Madeley Court Area to the North of the River Severn Gorge. [1]

Savage & Smith were diligent in their research and careful in their documenting of the historic sources and information gleaned on site. The resulting document is wonderful and I have really enjoyed engaging with it. This document alone would justify a research visit to the Ironbridge Gorge Museum Trust Archive. My thanks to the Archive for the welcome offered to me and their generous agreement to my using the material from this resource.

As a result of undertaking this and other research at the Archive, I have been asked to give a talk at one of the meetings of the Friends of the Ironbridge Gorge Museum Trust. I have begun the process of preparation and drafted some notes which may be of interest to others.

These notes can be found here:

I hope that these notes are of interest to some. It is possible that you may read them and find information which I have included which you may feel is incorrect. If so, please do let me know. I will be using this material to produce a talk for the Summer of 2023. If you read the notes before July 2023, I would really appreciate any comments that you might have.


  1. R.F. Savage & L.D.W. Smith; The Waggon-ways and Plate-ways of East Shropshire, Birmingham School of Architecture, 1965. An original document is held by the Archive Office of the Ironbridge Gorge Museum Trust.

A Time for Change?

There seems to be a growing feeling within the Church of England that it is time for change. There is increasing evidence that many, both clergy and laity, see a need for change over the Church’s position on human sexuality. [13]

Three Church of England Bishops now say that Church of England clergy should be able to conduct and bless gay marriages. The Bishop of Oxford, The Right Reverend Dr. Steven Croft, wrote an essay in the late Autumn where he apologised for his views being “slow to change” and any hurt he had caused. [14] He was joined by the Bishops of Worcester and Dudley, the Right Reverend Dr. John Inge, and Right Reverend Martin Gorick respectively.

In his essay, titled Together in Love and Faith, Croft writes that gay clergy should also be able to marry partners. He identifies the debate around same-sex marriage as “what seems to me to be the most pressing question requiring resolution”. [20]

The increasing sense that change is needed is a cause of much angst for those arguing for the traditional position on human sexuality to remain the Church’s commitment and doctrine.

Over the winter of 2022/2023, the Bishops in the UK continued their discussions which have followed on from the latest listening exercise ‘Living in Love and Faith’. But the structures of the Church of England mean that decisions over this kind of issue are made by the General Synod advised by the Bishops, not, ultimately, by the Bishops themselves. In February 2023, the Bishops plan to bring the discussion back to the General Synod for debate.

It seems somewhat invidious to try to talk about the issues involved in an objective, theological way. As, ultimately, this is a discussion about people’s lived experience and about their very being.

I have, however, recently been drawn into discussion about human sexuality. I am all too aware of the strength of feeling among those who are committed to the traditional position and I have been seeking to revisit the debate in the light of ‘Living in Love and Faith‘, which is the current relevant discussion material produced by the Church of England. This has been a time for reconsidering the conclusions I have reached, in a less structured way, in the past. 

‘Inclusion’ or ‘Exclusion’? ‘Affirmation’ or ‘Rejection’? These are the essential dynamics of the debate, at least as I understand they are perceived by those who are members of LGBTQI+ communities. Within the Church of England and the Anglican Communion, the issues generally revolve around fealty to the Bible and the inherited traditions of the Church. The ‘orthodox’ position and whether it is reasonable to revisit it.

In February 2017, the Archbishops of Canterbury and York announced a decision to begin a project that would become Living in Love and Faith, they coined a powerful and controversial phrase. “The work that they were proposing on sexuality and marriage would, they said, reflect a radical new Christian inclusion in the Church. This must be founded in Scripture, in reason, in tradition, in theology and the Christian faith as the Church of England has received it; it must be based on good, healthy, flourishing relationships, and in a proper 21st century understanding of being human and of being sexual.” [11]

That proposal begs the question of what ‘radical new Christian inclusion’ might mean. The call to a ‘holy life’ could lead to forms of exclusion. A tension between inclusion and exclusion is evident in the pages of the Old Testament. Moabites, for instance are unambiguously excluded from God’s people (Deuteronomy 23:3-6), yet Ruth, the Moabite, is included and becomes the great-grandmother of King David. Two distinct voices exist in the Old Testament and it is no stretch to argue that the story “of Ruth stands closer to the overall moral and spiritual heart of the Old Testament, and of the faith rooted in it, than does the paragraph in Deuteronomy 23.3-6. It lines up, for instance, with the prophecy in Isaiah, in which God promises to bring foreign peoples ‘to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer …. for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples’ (Isaiah 56.7). The judgement that Christians should privilege Ruth over the paragraph in Deuteronomy looks to be in line with the priorities of the Old Testament itself, quite apart from that of the New Testament.” [12: p225]

The question then perhaps arises whether, if the law in Deuteronomy 23 is relativized in the book of Ruth, there might be a similar relativizing or deprivileging of the Levitical prohibition of same-sex intercourse? Or does the absence of any texts commending what Leviticus condemns challenge such relativization?” [12: p225]

It is worth noting that “Exclusion in the New Testament is not about policing the boundary around a community that consistently achieves and maintains some standard of excellence. Rather, exclusion is reserved for those who reject and work against the Church’s calling, and who persist in that despite all attempts to win them round (Matthew 18.15-18; 1 Corinthians 5.3-6,11-13; 2 Thessalonians 3.6; Titus 3.9-11). The Church is a community called to stand against those forces in the wider world that reject and betray the love of God. It is called to recognize those forces and tendencies, to speak out against them, and to call its neighbours away from them. It is called to keep itself from falling into them – and to ask God’s forgiveness and help whenever it fails. … There is therefore, an unavoidable negotiation of inclusion and exclusion in the life of the Church of England which has often handled this negotiation very badly. It has all too often taken to policing its boundaries – refusing people welcome unless they measure up. It has often practised exclusion in ways that line up all too well with the forms of marginalization and oppression that mar the wider world.” [12: p226]

The church has sometimes made those whose marriages end in divorce feel unwelcome, and has often made LGBTI+ people feel that they don’t and can’t belong, simply because of who they are. We have, all too often, defined inclusion and exclusion by some standard other than the holiness, glory and love of God.” [12: p226]

Some believe that “the Church has failed to live up to its calling to inclusion, that it is being challenged to do much better by voices both from within and from wider society, and that it needs to rethink the images of sin and holiness that it proclaims, recognizing the ways in which they have been used to exclude. They believe that the Church needs to be much more inclusive, to better reflect the loving holiness of God. Others, while agreeing that there are undoubtedly issues of injustice and wrongful discrimination that call for repentance and redress, believe that the Church is called to uphold a distinctive way of life in the areas of sexuality and gender. They believe the Church is called to uphold forms of holy living that cut across many of our society’s understandings of what is permissible or desirable – and that might well conflict with understandings of inclusion widespread in our society. They believe that this distinctive way of life is profoundly good for human beings, and that upholding it is itself a way of displaying the love of God.” [12: p227]

Christians … agree that the Church ought to be a community where everyone is welcome. No one should be made to feel excluded simply because of who they are. The Church is meant to be a community that welcomes the poor, the marginalized, the excluded and the deprecated. We agree that the Church often fails in this calling and needs to repent of those failings. The Church is a community of people all of whom fail to follow God’s way consistently. We misunderstand. We harm ourselves and one another. We don’t live up to the standards that we proclaim. The Church should be a community of mercy. It should be a place where the weakness of our wills and the failures of our understanding can be acknowledged. It should be a community where we can face up to the harm that we have done and are doing, as well as recognizing the harm that has been done to us. The Church should be a community of grace. It should enable us to confess our sins to God, in confidence of forgiveness. It should help us to repent – to turn, and to keep on turning, towards the life God has called us into. It should be a community in which every person is enabled to follow this pattern of acknowledgement, confession and repentance, and to keep on following it.” [12: p228]

In the areas of identity, sexuality, relationships and marriage, however, we disagree about the patterns of behaviour that are consistent with this community’s calling. We disagree, therefore, about the kinds of change called for from the people who are welcomed into this community. We disagree about what it would look like for someone to work persistently against the life to which this community is called.” [12: p228]

‘Identity’ complicates matters. When we say to people whose very identity is that of a trans man or who have experience great liberation when they transitioned or a lesbian in a long and faithful relationship, ‘You are welcome, but we think that the way that you describe yourself is seriously mistaken, while you continue to live this way your involvement will be limited and you certainly will not be able to exercise leadership in this community’ How can we really expect them to agree that the Church is actually willing to welcome them as the person they believe themselves to be. Our welcome is very likely to be experienced as rejection and exclusion, “especially if [they] notice that no such questions about sexual activity are asked of [their] straight friends, and that nobody criticizes those friends when they say how central those relationships are to their identity and their well-being.” [12: p229]

Yet for those of us who do believe sexual relationships between people of the same sex are sinful, or that transitioning gender is a rejection of God’s good intention for us, the making of distinctions like this is unavoidable. It is a normal and necessary feature of the welcome that the Church extends to all. If the Church is understood as the community of those who follow the way of Christ, and if that way truly is incompatible with these behaviours, then it is necessary at some point to communicate that such ways of life are sinful and subject to God’s judgement. That means communicating God’s call to repentance as the means of being fully included in the life and ministry of the Church.” [12: p229]

Others of us disagree. We believe that there is nothing about same-sex sexual relationships, or about transitioning, that is incompatible with the life of Christ’s body. We therefore believe that placing limits on people’s full involvement in the life of the Church because of these things is a betrayal of the Church’s calling and identity. If the Church is the community of those who follow the way of Christ, and if that way truly is incompatible with this kind of exclusion, then people need to be challenged to leave behind behaviour that perpetuates these exclusions.” [12: p229]

How are Christians to discern what is compatible, and what is incompatible, with the life of Christ’s body? How are we to discern what is holy – what embodies and communicates the loving kindness of God?” [12: p229]

How is the Church of England to handle deep disagreements about these matters – disagreements about which forms of life are to be commended as holy and fitting for those in Christ, and which named as sins from which one needs to seek God’s grace and power to turn away?” [12: p229]

As part of the debate the Church of England has sought to listen to those for whom the matters being discussed are their lived experience and to those who seek to follow Christ as people in same-sex relationships, or who have transitioned from one gender identity to another.

I have discovered an illuminating book, written by Marcus Green and published by Kevin Mathew, entitled, “The Possibility of Difference: A biblical affirmation of inclusivity.” He is gay and I am not, but his words give me a sense of hope. I pray that there might be more who express similar views from both a traditionalist and a progressive perspective in the Anglican Communion as the months and years unfold. His position, it seems to me, is at one with the history of the Anglican Communion when it has been at its very best – a place where difference is acknowledged and talked about and where every effort is made to remain united as one family.

Green says: “As an evangelical and as a gay man, I want to be able to open my Bible and talk to others with open Bibles without there being no-go areas. I want to be able to disagree with traditionalist, conservative takes on sexuality without calling other people homophobes and without them doubting my commitment to Christ. I don’t want or need everyone to agree with me; though that would be nice for them… And I really don’t want the Church I belong to and love to split because people who are actually my friends think I’m worth splitting the Church over.Seriously, I’m not worth splitting the Church over. … So I want to find a way of looking at the Scriptures that is fair and biblical, and which lets those who disagree with me understand that we have the same heart and follow the same Lord. We just disagree. Sometimes quite strongly. But hope we’re trying (in Archbishop Justin Welby’s wonderful phrase) to disagree well.” [5: p65]

Green’s expressed hope remains out of reach. Our disagreements are probably just not amenable to that kind of discussion, however much we want them to be. Some disagreements are just too divisive. Living in Love and Faith is helpful in enabling us to understand more about the those disagreements. [12: p230-234] It suggests that it is helpful to think in terms of there being three broad types of disagreement:

  • First, there are disagreements in which each group believes the other to be advocating something simply incompatible with the good news of Jesus. They think the other group is teaching something that amounts to a rejection of Jesus’ call on one’s life. Some will say that the people involved are no longer serious about living as Jesus’ disciples, and that they cannot be considered Christians in any meaningful sense. Others will say that the people involved might still be Christians, but that their teaching is not- and perhaps that they are putting their own and others’ eternal salvation at risk.” [12: p231]
  • Second, there are disagreements that don’t cut right to the heart of our understanding of the gospel In this way, but that do undermine our ability to live and work together as one church. They make it hard to worship together, to share sacraments, to have a single structure of ministry, oversight and governance. A lot of ecumenical disagreements take this form. We recognize one another’s communities as Christian churches, teaching the gospel, but we disagree about matters that impair our ability to live and work together as one church.” [12: p231]
  • Third, there are disagreements that don’t make us think that those who disagree with us are rejecting the gospel, and that don’t prevent us working together as one church, even though we do think them wrong about something that matters.” [12: p231]

It seems that in the arguments over homosexuality, different parties understand their differences in very different ways. If I am to be honest, I probably want to place this issue in the third category above. I know, however, that for many others, these issues fall in the first category.

For some of us, the Church of England’s received teaching that the only proper place for intimate sexual activity is marriage between a man and woman is an integral part of Christian discipleship. Those who not only doubt that teaching but encourage other people in the name of the church to disregard it are advocating a path that leads away from following Christ.” [12: p232]

For others of us, a refusal to include LGBTI+ people in the life and ministry of a because of their sexual activity is itself incompatible with the way of Jesus Christ. Those who not only. persist in thinking this way themselves, but who are determined to perpetuate this exclusion in the authoritative actions of a church, cannot be recognized any longer as teachers of Christ’s gospel. They have betrayed the bonds of love and put themselves out of Christ’s company.” [12: p232]


A preliminary question might be: What constitutes ‘legitimate’ change in the Church?

Why should one kind of change not represent a fundamental betrayal of the gospel, when another kind does? Some people have tried to outline explicit criteria to evaluate legitimate developments – Cardinal Newman … was one – but the problem with most attempts to do so is that they depend on a prior discussion of arguments that have already taken place in the Church. It is much more difficult to stretch them to accommodate a completely unforeseen development in knowledge or understanding. That problem is particularly acute in questions of sexual morality, because the rapidity with which our knowledge of human physiology and psychology has developed in the last hundred years or so has completely outpaced many of the traditional lines of Christian moral reflection. But it is important, nevertheless, to hold on to a base distinction between what we regard as the essence of the gospel, and more secondary or derivative questions.” [7: p56]

Logically, this would seem to be a sensible way through this debate, but, sadly, it is also something which, in the context of this debate, is of limited assistance. The debate actually takes us directly into questions about what issues are central to the Gospel. One side of the debate, in all integrity, is convinced that the the issues in this debate are about the essence of the Gospel and cannot be treated as ‘secondary or derivative’. If this were not the case, there would be considerable room for what we call “reconciled diversity” below.

It seems to me that four questions must be considered as part of a debate on any matter of substance. These are:

  1. The interpretation of key Bible passages and the wider emphasis of scripture;
  2. The place of experience (and modern knowledge);
  3. The guidance of the Holy Spirit; and
  4. Jesus prayer for unity in John 17 that we ‘will be one as he and the father are one’.

The first of the matters listed above is a hermeneutical question and is answered with great integrity by different groups of people in the UK, the Church of England and the wider Anglican Communion in very different ways.

The answer to the second depends on our understanding of the role of the Holy Spirit in the world today and the hermeneutical process. There have been examples throughout history of increasing knowledge and experience challenging traditional understandings of issues and ultimately being accepted by the church. The one highlighted most clearly in the New Testament is the controversy over Gentiles being accepted into the church family without first being circumcised as Jews. [Acts 10 – 15] Peter calls into question what was an accepted position, primarily though his own encounter with the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit then falling on Cornelius’ household. Paul later brings the issue to the Council of Jerusalem. God is seen to be at work among the Gentiles and the then commonly accepted understanding of God’s will is challenged, renewed and, thankfully for us in the Gentile world, changed significantly.

The third depends on what we believe Jesus meant when he talked in John’s Gospel of ‘the Spirit leading us into all truth’. Is he talking of the Spirit as a guardian of historic truths, or as a creative improviser who takes what has been revealed and reinterprets it anew in each generation?

The fourth factor is, I believe, pivotal. It is the nature of Jesus’ prayer in John 17 that we ‘will be one as he and the father are one’. I have already written about this. The article can be found here. [1]

Jesus’ prayer suggests that the unity of the Church is of supreme importance. It is not “a merely practical arrangement. It is not just a question of finding mechanisms or rules that will enable us to hold together – though those things are often important in themselves. The unity of the Church is a moral unity, a unity that calls us out of our particular preoccupations, our tendencies to assume egoistically that we are entirely correct, and invites us to recognize our fellowship in Christ with all those who also seek to follow him.” [7: p57]

Because of Jesus’ prayer, we cannot rest in our own inner certainty that we are right, whether we hold a traditional position, or are convinced that we have discovered a new perspective on the implications of Christian faith. “We are bidden – if we take Christ’s call to unity seriously – to interpret the unity of the Church as a unity of charity, a unity that holds on as much as it can to the respect and love of our fellow Christians even when we are convinced that they are profoundly wrong.” [7: p57]

1. The interpretation of key Bible passages and the wider emphasis of scripture.

In a speech at the 2022 Lambeth Conference, Archbishop Justin Welby encouraged those on all sides of the debate about human sexuality to recognise the integrity and fidelity to Scripture of the other participants in the discussion.

He spoke of “profoundly different perspectives within the Anglican Communion about equal marriage, each the fruit of patient and faithful wrestling with scripture: ‘For the large majority of the Anglican Communion the traditional understanding of marriage is something that is understood, accepted and without question, not only by Bishops but their entire Church, and the societies in which they live. For them, to question this teaching is unthinkable, and in many countries would make the church a victim of derision, contempt and even attack. For many churches to change traditional teaching challenges their very existence. …….. For a minority, we can say almost the same. They have not arrived lightly at their ideas that traditional teaching needs to change. They are not careless about scripture. They do not reject Christ. But they have come to a different view on sexuality after long prayer, deep study and reflection on understandings of human nature. For them, to question this different teaching is unthinkable, and in many countries is making the church a victim of derision, contempt and even attack. For these churches not to change traditional teaching challenges their very existence.'” [3]

Justin Welby was recognising that both a traditional approach to the issue of human sexuality and thinking which challenges and questions the traditional position have strong claims to fidelity to Scripture. The critical question is hermeneutical, it is about interpretation, about how we approach the Scriptures with integrity, valuing them for what they are, the Word of God.

Ted Grimsrud, in an essay devoted to reviewing different perspectives on the debate about ‘Homosexuality’, makes a similar, very valid, point. In the conclusion to that essay, he asserts that, “to the extent that the controversy over sexuality lends itself to rational resolution, we would do well to devote more energy to trying to find common ground in relation to biblical interpretation. I do not believe the differences are so much based on different understandings of biblical authority as they are simply on different people finding different meanings in the texts. Hence, in theory we should be able to progress toward some common ground.” [4]

He goes on to say that, “to do so, we need to take each other’s good faith attempts to grapple with the Bible seriously. Perhaps our biggest challenge is to make the effort to understand one another before launching into our critique. Rather than treating this controversy as an argument to win or lose, we would do much better to think more in terms of a puzzle to solve – and that we all have a contribution to make to such a solution. No one is benefiting from the acrimony of the current impasses in which the churches find themselves.” [4]

The difficulty with both Justin Welby’s statement and the suggestion made by Ted Grimsrud is, it seems to me, that those who have the strongest commitment to the views that they espouse are apparently not happy with seeking common ground. Ultimately, they believe, with great integrity, as Justin Welby suggests, that they are being faithful to Scripture and to the God of the Bible and that anyone holding a different position cannot be being faithful to Scripture or to God’s intentions for his people.

Having read through a number of different arguments, I can see the case for both readings of the texts concerned and for both approaches to the wider biblical resource. This leaves me feeling that both sets of arguments are culturally conditioned in some way. The problem is not the text of Scripture itself, but our fallible efforts at interpretation.

There is a strong case for a literal reading of the text of the Scriptures. It rests on the eternal applicability of the words written under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That case, however, demands something significant from those who argue it. It requires a consistent approach to the text of the Scriptures. Unless that approach is consistent then what is accepted as having eternal applicability becomes culturally determined. Essentially it becomes a matter for the interpreter to determine which texts have eternal applicability as written and which, while still being God’s Word, spoke primarily to the culture of the day and which need interpretation before seeking to apply them to new situations.

It seems to me that the stronger hermeneutic is one which accepts, first of all, that all scripture was written in a particular culture and that its application within that culture needs first to be understood. This requires the greatest possible attention to the cultures within which the bible was written. It then requires us to understand the message to that culture and only then to apply that message to our own. That same hermeneutic asks us to look first at the major themes of the Scriptures and then to place individual texts within those themes.

I have sought elsewhere to consider both what are considered the important proof texts for a traditional view on same-sex sex and what is said in Scripture as a whole that might also relate to this matter. You can find some discussion of the biblical material here. [6]

If we all accept that our interpretation of the text of the Bible is just that, an interpretation, then we are on better grounds to consider the meaning of the text and it’s interpretation for today. Our discussion and our arguments are then about different interpretations of the text, rather than being about loyalty to the revealed Word of God or the rejection of its message.

This brings me back to the Archbishop of Canterbury’s statement at the Lambeth Conference in 2022 which calls on us to accept the good faith of all parties in the debate. And it leaves me asking whether there are possibly other approaches which might enable us to grapple with these matters.

The discussion below highlights one way to consider these matters which is faithful to Scripture. It relies on the events which are portrayed for us in the middle chapters of the Acts of the Apostles. ….

2. The place of experience (and modern knowledge).

The use of this title probably seems, at least at first, to be a step away from the Scriptural debate. But I don’t believe that it is. I believe that it is about taking seriously the story brought to us in the middle of the Acts of the Apostles a story which is about the Gospel being set free to speak clearly in the Gentile world.

Perhaps first we should set the scene. …..

In the early chapters of Acts we see a new movement within Judaism developing rapidly. It clearly begins to include Hellenic Jews within its scope and we become aware of tensions which existed within this new community. It becomes necessary for the Apostles to appoint deacons to ensure a fair distribution of the community’s resources.

We also see the Holy Spirit at work in including Jews from the diaspora within this new community of faith. Philip’s encounter with the Ethiopian Eunuch leads to the Gospel reaching far beyond the immediate confines of the Eastern end of the Mediterranean. (Incidentally, it is the first introduction into the New Testament story of someone who had an uncertain sexual status and who was welcomed into the new community of faith.)

These things seem gently to push at accepted boundaries. The more significant changes are still to come.

The Holy Spirit intervenes once again. This time in the story of Peter’s stay in Joppa. This is, first of all, a personal encounter for Peter in the form of a dream/vision which encourages him to think beyond the confines of his inherited beliefs and the traditional guidance of his Jewish scriptures. He wakes with these words ringing in his ears, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” [Acts 10:15] and as he does so there is a shout from the front door of the house where emissaries from Cornelius (a Roman centurion) stand waiting to take him to Caesarea, to Cornelius’ home.

As Peter speaks at Cornelius’ house, the Holy Spirit preempts any possible appeal by Peter and falls on all those present. We are told that, “While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.” [Acts 10:44-46]

Peter, and those with him, were taken beyond the provisions of their own traditional understanding of their scriptures. They saw God at work among people that they thought God would not accept without them first becoming Jews.

In Acts 11, Peter explains to the gathered church in Jerusalem and we then read these words: “When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, ‘So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.’” [Acts 11:18]

Apparently, this was not enough to resolve the matter, because in Acts 15 we read that, “Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: ‘Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.’ [Acts 15:1]

Paul and Barnabas challenge this teaching and a Council is convened in Jerusalem to consider the case. The result is a confirmation that Gentile believers do not need first to become Jews before they can encounter the grace and love of God in their lives. [Acts 15:1-35]

The result of a Council set up in Jerusalem was a recognition that traditional understandings needed to be set aside when challenged by the work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of people who came to faith through the witness of those who loved Jesus.

Peter, Paul and Barnabas are named, but others too, experienced God at work and as a result changed their inherited theological position and their understanding of the way God worked in the world.

The convincing factor was not a detailed treatise on the words of their scriptures, known to us as the Old Testament. The convincing factor was the work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of others who once were outside of the community of faith but who were now members of that community.

This process in Acts seems to offer us a biblical model for the resolution of major issues, a model which relies on the experience of God’s work in the world.

I have suggested elsewhere that this is, in fact, essentially the way the church makes decisions of this nature. Light is shed on a significant issue which seems to call into question cherished thinking and the Church then has to return to the Scriptures and review its theology. You can find some further discussion of this here. [6]

3. The guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Part of change and continuity is the way in which the Church has to rely on the Holy Spirit as its guide in all things. The Spirit will lead us into all truth:

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.” [John 16:13]

One of the ways in which we allow the Holy Spirit to speak to us is through listening to the stories of others: “Listening in this way also allows us to begin to perceive where the Spirit is at work in those different from us, much as the early church listened to Peter and others in the controversies at the heart of the stories in the Acts of the Apostles.” [12: p49]

Part of any process of discernment must include listening to the stories of those whose lived experience is being discussed. This involves both to listening to their stories and allowing them to participate in any debate. Stories help us to “to step out of ourselves, out of our own world and concerns into those of another. They invite us to listen actively and attentively, laying down for a moment our own anxieties and fears in order to be present to another. In so doing we create a space for the work of God’s Spirit in us. We are exercising faith in the reality of Christ in each person, and in the possibility of Christ addressing us through the life of another. By paying attention to the stories of people who have different, and even opposing, understandings of abundant life, we are taking a first step towards something that we do not yet see and cannot perhaps even imagine: a community of believers whose love for one another testifies to the living Christ.” [12: p48]

This kind of attentive listening is an act of holy love through which the Holy Spirit can speak. It requires of us a willingness to examine ourselves to understand how and why we react to what we hear.  Pastoral Principles of Living Well Together gives some guidance “which will help us to discern together what the Spirit is saying to the churches (Rev. 2.11,17,29; 3.6,13,22).” [10: p4] Examining ourselves will help us to: address areas of our own ignorance; acknowledge prejudice (by welcoming people as they are, loving them unconditionally, seeking to see Christ in them and nurturing respect between people who disagree); admit hypocrisy (by not condemning certain behaviours and attitudes while turning a blind eye to others, remembering that we are all fallible, broken and equally in need of God’s grace are all are weak); cast out fear (by consciously demonstrating and living out what it means for perfect love to cast out fear even in situations of disagreement and by modelling openness and vulnerability as each of us wrestles prayerfully with the costliness of Christian discipleship); speak into silence (by remembering that we are the Body of Christ, called to relate deeply and openly with one another, sharing what is on our hearts as well as in our minds, and by practising deep listening, without a hidden agenda, that encourages conversations about questions of human identity, sexuality, relationships and marriage); pay attention to power (by being alert to attempts to control others, remembering that God’s Spirit alone can bring transformation into our lives and the lives of others, and through following Christ’s example of service and compassion as we accompany one another in following the way of the cross). [12: p4-5][cf. 10]

This kind of listening is Spirit-filled and, through it, each of one of us can be changed by God’s Holy Spirit.

4. Jesus prayer for unity in John 17.

This fourth matter is of paramount significance for the Church. It is part of our primary calling. It is something that the Church of England and the wider Anglican Communion has always sought to honour. It has been a ‘cultural’ position within the Church of England, part of its DNA, and seems to have governed our discussions on many issues throughout the centuries. It was deliberate policy in the production of the King James Bible. A translation which was deliberately placed in the hands of a range of scholars representing a range of positions within the Church of England and which  was intended to provide a ‘scriptural umbrella’ under which all could shelter. [8] Most recently it has given rise to the ‘mutual flourishing’ intended by steps forward first to the ordination of women to the priesthood and then again to their ordination to the episcopate.

However, that innate intention to remain as one seems now to be threatened. “The question of homosexuality does seem to strike at the very foundation of church unity. There’s something asymmetrical about the arguments within the Church. The problem is that homosexuality seems to overturn the moral witness of the whole of scripture. On the traditional view, homosexual behaviour is a sin, and the Church cannot compromise with sin. In effect it is a renunciation of the gospel. On that basis there can be no compromise on the question, because any admission that Christians could afford to disagree on this matter (or rather could afford to diverge in moral practice) would be to cancel out the Church itself, to abolish the Church.” [7: p57] This view, to some, seems narrow, but it is being loyal to centuries of practice and belief.

Those who favour change do not accept that homosexual behaviour is in itself sinful. They do accept “that there can be many sinful forms of homosexual behaviour, just as there can be of heterosexual behaviour. They do not on the whole deny their opponents their moral legitimacy, though of course they presuppose that their own understanding is the superior one. They do plead for a broader, more generous and inclusive interpretation of scripture. But generally they presume that the argument can be sustained at a reasoned, moderate level in the Church. One side cannot compromise with a sin; the other side assumes sin is not the issue.” [7: p58]

Given these asymmetric positions, the hope that we can all agree to differ within a kind of “reconciled diversity” [7: p58] is seemingly unsustainable.


So what can we say about a way forward, in this particular case, that accepts that unity is Christ’s prayer for us?

We have to accept that the question of the Church’s acceptance of everyone as a fundamental issue for the Gospel. Both sides in the debate are actually saying that this is the fundamental issue, even if they try to ameliorate their stance with generous words about each other’s attempts to be faithful to the Gospel.  Traditionalists see inclusion/exclusion of sexually active same-sex partners as fundamental to the Gospel, a Communion-breaking issue. But so too do those with more liberal views, they might want to talk about a broad church but this is also for them an issue which is fundamental to the Gospel. Both can argue their positions from Scripture.

This will mean that the two sides are essentially arguing over the same thing – a fundamental understanding about the Gospel of Christ.

Although attempting to be pragmatic will be very unlikely, at least in this case, to provide a way for those who most strongly argue their positions to be drawn together sufficiently to accept ‘reconciled diversity’ in the generous, Christ-like way that would be a sign of God’s grace and love to our world.

The unity that Christ prays for, ultimately, cannot be sacrificed because all who follow Christ are actually (ontologically, if you like) united. We believe that the word’s spoken by God achieve the purpose for which they were spoken. So we are united. Despite everything that the Church has done down the years to try to negate this, despite appalling battles between denominations and integrities, despite us burning each other at the stake, despite one side’s belief that its doctrines are superior to the other. We are still one. We share the same DNA as followers of Christ, no matter how ugly our difference get, no matter how much we shun or exclude each other. We are still one. No matter how little we love each other. We are still one.

This is true within our denominations and Communions, and it is true across those denominations. We are one. Our behaviour might not look as though this is the case, and to all intents and purposes we may be completely estranged and so appear disunited, but we are still one. Jesus prayer for us is that the unity for which he prays will become evident in our shared lives and the lives of our denominations. He prays that we will live the truth of our ‘oneness’ and that people will be amazed by how much we love each other even when the divisions we face are so great.

I would like us to be able to say, as the statement from ‘Integrity‘ says: “We believe in a Church which welcomes and serves all people in the name of Jesus Christ; which is scripturally faithful; which seeks to proclaim the Gospel afresh for each generation; and which, in the power of the Holy Spirit, allows all people to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Jesus Christ.” [9] I’d like us not to have to qualify this in any way. But I know that this is extremely unlikely to happen.

We are just not there yet. We are in a very different place. We are still at loggerheads and are unable to generously recognise that those who most strongly argue against us have integrity and are, like us, seeking God’s best for us all.

I suspect that the only thing that could possibly, hopefully, happen across the whole Anglican Communion in the medium-term is for there to be a grace-filled acceptance that different provinces must be free to make their own decisions which apply the Gospel as faithfully as they can within their own cultures. This will probably mean that there are dramatic differences between different parts of the Anglican Communion. There would need to be a way of regularising the intrusions of episcopal oversight into other provinces. There would need to be a generous willingness on the part of those travelling between different provinces to accept the oversight of the relevant Archbishop and Bishops. There would also need to be a generous willingness to accept the ministry of those who journey to be with us. It might be necessary in conservative provinces to provide some form of alternative oversight for churches/Christians who struggle with the prevailing position of the province just as there may need to be provision for alternative oversight for more conservative churches/Christians in more liberal provinces.

This will, however, require very significant change for both those who most strongly affirm inclusion, and for those who argue the traditional position. In the short-term its seems unlikely, if not impossible.

If it were to occur, there would continue to need to be an international forum (or forums) where these substantive issues are debated in depth, sometimes in anger, but at all times accepting that in God’s eyes we are one.  This will need to be a place (or will need to be places) which is/are seen to be able to hold our disagreements in tension and where our common status as loved and fallen children of God is strenuously affirmed. Because to deny our unity is, in itself, to deny our Lord.

That same level of active listening and debate would probably also need to be held, honoured as a safe place, in every province of the Anglican Communion. Living in Love and Faith provides a model for that ongoing listening and discussion

In Living in Love and Faith, The Archbishops of Canterbury and York say that: “Our vision must be that which Jesus prays for in John 17.21, ‘that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me!’ Being one is not in the sense of being the same, but being one in love and obedience and holiness, so that the world may find the knowledge of Christ as Saviour and the peace of God in the experience of God’s Kingdom. There will probably never be a time when we all agree exactly what that looks like, but our prayer for the Church through this work is that collectively we demonstrate the same love to one another that we have experienced from God; the grace that includes everyone whom Jesus Christ is calling to follow him; the holiness that changes the world and the unity that calls others to faith in Christ. The gift of that kind of love for God, for each other, and even for those who oppose us, is, in the words of 1 Peter, a love that covers a multitude of sins and thus leads us to be holy as God is holy (1 Peter 4.8 and 1.16).” [2: pX]

It seems that all of us will need to be willing to accept that the core arguments will not be solved in the short or medium term. We will need to pray continually that the Holy Spirit will increase a generous sense of love, unity and trust in us as time goes by, leading us into all truth. [John 16:13]

But, and this is a big ‘but’, this is not a matter that can be parked for as long as it takes. This is about people’s lives. The Church of England has made some very significant pragmatic and pastoral moves. Essentially it has accepted that, while it currently continues to hold an orthodox position on sexuality and same-sex marriage, it can be pastorally more sensitive.

In February 2014, in their letter introducing the House of Bishops’ Pastoral Guidance on Same Sex Marriage, the Archbishops of Canterbury and York wrote that “the gospel demands that we all listen, speak and act with integrity, self discipline and grace, acknowledging that as yet our knowledge and understanding are partial.” [15]

They went on to say that the Bishops were all, “conscious that within both Church and society there are men and women seeking to live faithfully in covenanted same sex relationships. … The proposition that same sex relationships can embody crucial social virtues is not in dispute.  Same sex relationships often embody genuine mutuality and fidelity…., two of the virtues which the Book of Common Prayer uses to commend marriage.  The Church of England seeks to see those virtues maximised in society.” [15]

In the House of Bishops’ Guidance reference was made to Issues in Human Sexuality where the House of Bishops’ “affirmed that, while the same standards of conduct applied to all, the Church of England should not exclude from its fellowship those lay people of gay or lesbian orientation who, in conscience, were unable to accept that a life of sexual abstinence was required of them and who, instead, chose to enter into a faithful, committed sexually active relationship.” [16]

Consistent with that, the House of Bishops’ said in their “2005 pastoral statement that lay people who had registered civil partnerships ought not to be asked to give assurances about the nature of their relationship before being admitted to baptism, confirmation and holy communion, or being welcomed into the life of the local worshipping community more generally.” [17]

They also reinforced guidance that “the clergy could not lawfully refuse to baptize children on account of the family structure or lifestyle of those caring for them, so long as they and the godparents were willing to make the requisite baptismal promises following a period of instruction. [an recognised] many reasons why couples wish their relationships to have a formal status: … the joys of exclusive commitment and … the importance of legal recognition of the relationship. To that end, civil partnership continues to be available for same sex couples. Those same sex couples who choose to marry should be welcomed into the life of the worshipping community and not be subjected to questioning about their lifestyle. Neither they nor any children they care for should be denied access to the sacraments.” [17]

More recently, the House of Bishops’ has issued guidance on ‘Pastoral Principles of Living Well Together‘ [10] which encourages careful thought about how we relate when we disagree and how we acknowledge our own prejudices, ignorance, fear, hypocrisy and abuse of power. 

None of this addresses the underlying and, for some, overwhelming sense of rejection, that the formal position of the Church continues to engender.

One of the books that I have been reading is a collection of essays entitled, ‘An Acceptable Sacrifice? Homosexuality and the Church‘. [18] It raises the question of whether it is fair and reasonable that doctrinal development and a reconsideration of the issues should be allowed to continue without some clear sense of a real horizon ahead. “As things stand at the moment, the Church if England is asking of gay men and women an immense sacrifice. Is it an acceptable sacrifice?” [19: p7]


  2. Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby and Archbishop of York, Stephen Cottrell; Forward; in House of Bishops of the Church of England; Living in Love and Faith; Church House Publishing, 2020, pvii-x.
  3. Quoted by Revd Dr William Lamb, Vicar of the University Church of St Mary the Virgin, Oxford, an Associate Member of the Faculty of Theology and Religion, University of Oxford, and a Fellow of Harris Manchester College; A Serious Call to a Devout and Holy Life: A Reprise;, accessed on 30th October 2022.
  4. Ted Grimsrud; The “Homosexuality” Debate: Two Streams of Biblical Interpretation;, accessed on 31st October 2022. Versions of this essay were published in C. Norman Kraus, To Continue the Dialogue (Cascadia Publishing House), and in Ted Grimsrud and Mark Thiessen Nation, Reasoning Together: A Conversation on Homosexuality (Herald Press).
  5. Marcus Green; The Possibility of Difference: A biblical affirmation of inclusivity; Kevin Mathew, Stowmarket, Suffolk, 2018.
  7. Jeremy Morris; The church and change: tradition and development; in Duncan Dormor & Jeremy Morris .eds; An Acceptable Sacrifice? Homosexuality and the Church; SPCK, London, 2007, p46-61.
  8. Adam Nicolson; Power and Glory: Jacobean England and the Making of the King James Bible; HarperCollins, London, 2003.
  9., accessed on 21st December 2022.
  10. Church of England; Pastoral Principles of Living Well Together; Church House Publishing, London, 2019 and available at, accessed on 20th December 2022.
  11. Justin Welby and John Sentamu; Letter from the Archbishops of Canterbury and York following General Synod (Church of England, 2017); available at, accessed on 24th December 2022.
  12. House of Bishops of the Church of England; Living in Love and Faith; Church House Publishing, 2020.
  13., accessed on 5th January 2023.
  14., accessed on 5th January 2023.
  15., accessed on 5th January 2023.
  16. House of Bishops of the Church of England; Issues in Human Sexuality; Church House Publishing, 1991.
  17. House of Bishops of the Church of England; Civil Partnerships: A Pastoral Statement; Church House Publishing, 2005.
  18. Duncan Dormor & Jeremy Morris .eds; An Acceptable Sacrifice? Homosexuality and the Church; SPCK, London, 2007.
  19. Duncan Dormor & Jeremy Morris; Introduction; in Duncan Dormor & Jeremy Morris .eds; An Acceptable Sacrifice? Homosexuality and the Church; SPCK, London, 2007.
  20., accessed on 5th January 2023.

Can we be faithful to Scripture and affirm faithful, monogamous same-sex relationships?

There are many who believe that this cannot possibly be the case in the light of a number of specific texts in both the New and the Old Testament which appear to be conclusive.

Others argue that a careful reading of the Scriptures will lead anyone with an open mind to the conclusion that the Bible does not condemn faithful, monogamous same-sex relationships.

While so many in the Anglican Communion agree about so much and even when we disagree we seem generally to be able to hear other people’s perspectives. This is the one issue that we make into the contemporary test of orthodoxy and seem unable to make room for difference. It is an issue which “is not in any early church statement of faith, and it is absent from the Reformers’ great debates. Luther did not make any great play on this. Calvin didn’t seem to care. The Westminster Shorter Catechism forgot to focus here. …” [1: p19] But this has become the touchstone in our assessment of each other.

It seems that neither side in the debate finds it easy, or even possible, to acknowledge the integrity and scriptural loyalty of the other. So, we sit at a crossroads with different parts of the church pulling in different directions, and, no doubt, many in the church looking back and forward between the two, not sure which way to turn.

Somewhere between the extremes of these polarized sentiments probably lie the vast majority of churchgoers, with people uncertain what to make of it all, or people opposed to a change or supportive of it, who nevertheless do not regard it as a church-breaking issue.” [2: p1]

In the light of this ‘stalemate’ it seems likely, to me at least, that there will be a significant and possibly permanent split in the Anglican Communion unless things change significantly.

Duncan Dormor and Jeremy Morris comment that “the possibility of a permanent split [hangs] over the Anglican Communion. … These divisions are not of course confined to Anglicanism. They can be found in Methodism, in churches of the Reformed and Lutheran traditions, and in Roman Catholicism. But they have perhaps never been as bitter there, or as destructive, as they have in Anglicanism. Advocates of a change in the Church’s policy towards homosexuality and their opponents have traded insults and claimed the moral high ground.” [2: p1]

The Archbishop of Canterbury’s speech at the Lambeth Conference 2022 included a reminder of the reality of the current situation, and the need to care for each other: “So let us not treat each other lightly or carelessly. We are deeply divided. That will not end soon. We are called by Christ himself both to truth and unity.” [3]

My linked article (below) tries to address, carefully, the question raised in the title to this short blog. It shows that it is possible, depending on your approach to Scripture to argue with integrity for both the traditional position and the progressive position when approaching Scripture. It highlights the importance of listening to modern knowledge, experience and culture and then returning to the text of Scripture with an open mind. When we do this we engage in a similar process to that which Peter and the early Church encountered, led by the Holy Spirit which we have received, in the middle chapters of the Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament.

I do believe that it is possible to remain faithful to Scripture and affirm faithful, monogamous, same-sex relationships.

However, I also believe that this should not be an issue over which the Church of England should allow itself to become divided. This is a matter of interpretation of Scripture, rather than one about loyalty to Scripture.

We are called to be ‘one’ (John 17), whether or not we agree. The Anglican Communion is deeply divided, but we are called to unity and we are called to truth. Integrity and Unity. It is our love for each other, even in the midst of the greatest disagreement, that will draw others to faith. At least that seems to be what Jesus believed!

By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (John 13:35)

I offer the linked article below as a careful wide-ranging discussion of the arguments which surround this important question. It is not a light read.

I greatly appreciate the way in which Living in Love and Faith [4] has been presented. Of the different books that I have read recently, this is the one which best allowed me to engage openly with the issues.

I feel happier with where my instincts have lead me over recent years. I feel affirmed in my desire for a fully inclusive Church which is truly so, accepting and valuing each other even when we strongly disagree.

So, this is who I am. This is what I believe. Inclusion is a Gospel imperative. If we fail to include all, we fail in following our Lord. Even then God’s grace is sufficient, he still loves and accepts us when we struggle to be inclusive. God includes all, everyone, within the scope of God’s love.

Being inclusive is the very embodiment of the Gospel. We are all sinful and we all sin, we all struggle to love as God loves us, we are all defensive at times, we are all selfish at times. Often unconsciously, we can all be biased against someone different from us. We are all called to grow more into the character and nature of our Lord.

Towards the end of Living in Love and Faith, there is a series of encounters with different churches in the UK. The examples used are actually all attractive in their own way, but the one that I warm to most is St. Mildred, Upper Mallowpool:

St Mildred’s Church serves the small town of Upper Mallowpool with a population of nearly 15,000. Six parishioners had gathered at the back of the church to take part in the conversation: Richard, the vicar; Duncan and Miriam, an older couple who also attend a Baptist church; Jenny, a lesbian woman in a partnership; Owen, a gay youth worker; and Noah, a heterosexual married man. In the background a group was clearing up after the midweek coffee and craft session.

Richard got the conversation going. ‘So, my theology has changed over time. As an evangelical, I’m quite clear on the need for the Scriptures to lead the way. But my thinking has changed. Being divorced and remarried, the theology I take for myself on divorce is that divorce is not God’s ideal plan but that when I read the Scriptures, it’s allowable. And when I look at the Scriptures’ teaching on sexuality, the conclusion I’ve come to is that same-sex relationships are not God’s ideal plan, but that they are allowed. And so, I feel like I’m in a position to say that because I’m willing to criticize myself over divorce and remarriage. That has enabled me to reach out so we have gay people involved in positions of responsibility within our church family. We have to find a way, though, of including those who see it differently. Noah chipped in, ‘It’s interesting, we’re not out for overt inclusion. But we welcome anybody. and we don’t exclude anybody.’

It soon became apparent that not only did everyone agree that being truly inclusive meant including people with opposing views, but this little group embodied this very reality. Although Duncan and Miriam were clear that same-sex marriage was not an option, they were happy to join in the conversation – a conversation that combined deep and overt affection with spontaneous honesty.

Owen pitched in with his story: ‘As someone who is gay, my theology has been left, right and centre. I’ve gone, is abstinence the correct way? But then, come to the conclusion that if God is love, then it says, “Whoever does not love, does not know God.” And therefore, I must be able to love, to know God. But yeah, I can understand both sides, because my theology has gone all the way round. I love this sort of conversation.’

Jenny spoke movingly about how difficult she had found it to cross the threshold of the church eight years ago and what it meant for her to be welcomed in by Richard. She had been thrown out of her Christian family home at the age of 16 when she came out. Even now, only one sister is willing to be in touch with her.

But the conversation kept coming back to how each of them had come to their convictions. ‘Is there actually any gender in the afterlife, in heaven? Is gender only a concept for a tiny fraction of our existence? And that, maybe, puts it a little bit in perspective,’ said Noah. ‘By trying to say that we know all of the rights and wrongs, I’d say we’re putting ourselves almost in the position of God over humanity. God tells us to let him judge, because it’s in our nature to get things wrong.’ Richard agreed: ‘But he will judge, and, therefore, it’s important that if we become convinced that something we thought before wasn’t right, then we must change. As long as we’re open to the possibility that we might be wrong, then I think that’s what will qualify us, when we meet God.’“[4: p417-418]


  1. Marcus Green; The Possibility of Difference: A biblical affirmation of inclusivity; Kevin Mathew, Stowmarket, Suffolk, 2018.
  2. Duncan Dormor and Jeremy Morris; Introduction; in Duncan Dormor and Jeremy Morris (eds); An Acceptable Sacrifice? Homosexuality and the Church; SPCK, London, 2007.
  3. Quoted by Prof. Helen King; Over to the bishops? Finding ways to respect differences;, accessed on 30th October 2022.
  4. House of Bishops of the Church of England; Living in Love and Faith; Church House Publishing, 2020.

Horse-Drawn Tramways of the Wye Valley

A great Christmas purchase from Rossiter Books in Leominster! (£12.99, ISBN 978-1-910839-60-7, Paperback, 176 pages, 242 x 171mm). NB: The images in this article are sourced from the internet.

Horse-Drawn Tramways of the Wye Valley [1] by Heather Hurley, published by the Logaston Press in Novber 2022, is an excellent introduction to the early tramways in the Wye Valley. A short-lived transport system of horse-drawn waggons on rails, operating from the late eighteenth century to the introduction of steam locomotives in the middle of the nineteenth century, primarily used for transporting goods such as coal and wood.

Heather Hurley explores all of the tramways known to have existed in and around the Wye Valley from Kington, through Brecon and Hay to Abergavenny, Monmouth, the Forest of Dean and Hereford; the routes taken, the companies that built and ran them, and the people who used them. She draws on extensive research of Tramway Company archives, Acts and ledgers, maps and plans, newspapers and journals, archaeological reports, books and illustrations, as well as detailed fieldwork.

As the back cover states, Hurley’s book is richly illustrated and offers captivating insights into early nineteenth-century transport history, trade routes and the beginnings of the steam railways on the Welsh border.

Heather Hurley has a keen interest in local history. She has written several books, including ‘The Scudamores of Kentchurch and Holme Lacy’, ‘The Story of Ross’ and ‘Landscape Origins of the Wye Valley’. She is planning to produce a parallel volume about the railways of the Wye Valley in due course.

Horse-Drawn Tramways of the Wye Valley is an easy to read but well-researched introduction to tramways in the Southern Marches. Evidence of Hurley’s detailed research can be found in the extensive notes which support each chapter. Solid research does not, however, mean that this is primarily a dry academic book. It is accessibly produced with appropriate illustrations and a confident narrative.

The first chapter gives an overview of transport systems which predated the introduction of tramways. A chapter is devoted to the development of the horse-drawn tramways which includes an important section focussing on the horses used, before the more usual engineering matters of waggons, rails and stone ‘sleepers’ are covered.

The Monmouth Tramroad (or Railway),
© Afterbrunel and licenced for use under a Creative Commons Licence (CC BY-SA 4.0). [2]

Individual chapters are devoted to the major networks which developed along the Wye Valley:

  • The Monmouth Tramroad
  • The Severn and Wye Tramroad
  • The Bishopswood, Scott and Teague Tramways
  • The Hay Railway
  • The Kingston Railway
  • The Abergavenny and Hereford Rail Road.
Brecon – the longest railway in the world: … This ‘diorama’ was installed by British Waterways in the ‘noughties’ beside the canal at Brecon. It commemorates the one-time ‘longest railway in the world’ which ran from Brecon to Kington via Hay-on-Wye. It was actually two horse-drawn tramways which met end-on at Eardisley – The Hay Railway and the Kingston Railway. The combined length exceeded 36 miles and claimed the title of the longest railway between 1820 and 1837, © Copyright Alan Bowring and licensed for reuse under a Creative Commons Licence (CC BY-SA 2.0). [3]
Grosmont Tramroad: Behind Werngifford are the remains of a tramroad built in the early 19th century. It formerly connected with the Llanfihangel Tramroad to form a through route between Abergavenny and Hereford until replaced by the modern railway in 1854, © Copyright Alan Bowring and licensed for reuse under a Creative Commons Licence (CC BY-SA 2.0). [4]

Two further chapters cover some local tramways of interest and the coming of steam-power.

The history of each of the major lines is recounted is some detail, each route is surveyed and details of goods carried are provided. For each line, some notes are provided on remains visible in the 21st century and on where documents recording its life can be found.

The extent of the coverage in a paperback book of 176 pages is to be commended. No doubt some readers will want to look at one or more of the routes portrayed in more detail than is possible in a book of this nature. The book might have benefitted from the addition of maps to support the detailed route descriptions provided towards the end of each of the major chapters. The book is, however, a wonderful introduction to its subject and has been an excellent post-Christmas read!

I wholeheartedly recommend this book to anyone interested in the industrial history of the Welsh Marches and the Forest of Dean. Anyone interested in the history of tramways/tramroads in the UK would do well to purchase a copy, not only for the informative narrative and illustrations but also for the detailed endnotes.

The Logaston Press takes its name from the hamlet of Logaston, in the beautiful countryside of rural north-west Herefordshire. It was here that Logaston Press was set up by Andy Johnson in 1983, and later run by Andy together with his wife Karen.

In 2018 Andy and Karen handed over the reins to Richard and Su Wheeler, who now run Logaston Press from the nearby village of Eardisley.

Logaston Press publishes books on local history, landscape, archaeology, architecture, and a range of walks guides – all focussed on the ‘Logaston heartlands’ of the Southern Marches: Herefordshire, Shropshire, Worcestershire and Gloucestershire, Radnorshire, Breconshire and Montgomeryshire.

In almost four decades, Logaston Press has published more than 350 titles, with more than 100 books currently in print. Its books are beautifully produced, ethically printed and reasonably priced. They are are a pleasure to own.

Logaston Press is rooted in the people and places of the Southern Marches and is dedicated to publishing books that explore and illuminate this extraordinary part of the world.


  1. Heather Hurley; Horse-Drawn Tramways of the Wye Valley; Logaston Press, Eardisley, 2022.
  2., accessed on 1st January 2023.
  3., accessed on 2nd January 2023.
  4., accessed on 2nd January 2023.